Shadow AI Is Eating the World, the Return of Hacking Team, and the Commercial Spyware Landscape

challenge for a lot of organizations because you just have random workers that have access to sensitive data, shoving it into LLMS and other AI tools and being like, let's see what happens here, You know, and there's a whole bunch of legal issues there, compliance issues and just all kinds of security and other problems that probably weren't foreseen, you know, even 18 or 24 months ago, but now morphed into a giant thing. And the three seas on this discussion panel, all very senior, obviously all very accomplished and seasoned, all sort of looked at that question or like, we're doing our best, but nobody's really got it solved. And you know, Dave said the same thing. He's like, I, I don't really run into anybody that solved this. I don't really know how you can unless you're, you know, you have access to these sites and

these tools completely locked down or, or blocked or some other onerous restrictions that really make it hard for people to do their jobs. But it's one of those things that really kind of sprang up, not out of nowhere, but sprang up very quickly. And I have a feeling it's going to continue to mushroom over the next, you know, months and years ahead. Yeah, it's funny that you that, you know, they were talking about that because I feel like a lot of the news that I see around AI and cybersecurity is mostly focused on like, you know, who is AI going to help more, the good guys or the bad guys, the defenders or the threat actors? And yes, that's a very like, you know, interesting and important thing to talk about.

But I also feel like this is something that's more of a practical issue that we're dealing with within our companies that a lot of people honestly aren't really talking about as much, at least based on what I've seen, you know, and how this has been discussed across, you know, reports or the press or things like that. So I, you know, I'm always a fan of talking about kind of data governance and AI and all, all those kind of sticky issues. But the other thing is like the fact that AI like, even if it's just, there's so many different tools that you can use that even if you try to get a handle on like one of the applications that maybe your employees are using, like they're, they're different tools that people in HR are going to be using. They're different, you know, applications that people, you know, in legal are going to be using. So I think it's just like so hard to track down all these different use cases and like set

policies around them because there's, it's just like it's being embedded into really a lot of different things. So it's it's a hard thing to handle. Oh, there's yeah, that's the, that's a really important point that you just made, I think is it's not just things like ChatGPT or, you know, Gemini or Claude or whatever it happens to be the big ones everyone knows about. There's so many niche specific AI related tools that are out there. Like in our world, just say the journalism world, there are so many different AI writing tools out there that it's, I don't even know who like, I know that you and I are and I know that some of our friends are.

But who's actually writing anymore aside from, you know, rather than just shoving stuff into, into an AI tool and saying, summarize this for me. And they take the 8 paragraphs and be like, here you go. You know, there's plenty of content sites out there. You can go and look at them and be like, that's 99% AIAI generated slot. And in, in the other departments, like you said, HR, accounting, all that kind of stuff.

I'm sure it's creating lots of efficiencies and more productivity and that's the goal and all La La la. But who's paying attention? Like where are the guardrails for what kind of data is being put into these systems? Where, where that, where's that data being stored on the back end, on the, you know, on the tools back end? Nobody knows. Like these things are black boxes. Nobody has any idea where that shit is going. They're not telling you, you know, And so the security and, and compliance and governance concerns are, you know, manifold.

They're not, and they're not easy to deal with at all. Yeah, right. And just like the looking at the way that these, you know, applications are used, like a lot of people to your point will put in sensitive customer data and be like, hey, like create, you know, organize this data for me in this manner, which is really helpful. But it's also, you know, if it's not a vetted tool, then it just goes back to your point about kind of this being a black box and us not knowing where where the data is.

So yeah. In the other, the flip side of the coin is so many companies are not just allowing but encouraging their employees to to use AI tools and in some cases mandating it. Like you must use these tools in your daily daily work. Which is kind of odd to me depending on what your job is. But you know, for example, at that round table, the guy from Oracle Red Bull Racing there, see, so you know, obviously that's a hyper specific industry that he's in. He knows he has 9 competitors.

The other nine teams in F1, he knows they all know each other. Everybody knows exactly the what they're doing. The rules for the cars are, you know, mandated down to the billionth of a millimeter, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, he said, look, in our case, nobody on one of our teams is going to do anything that's going to give even the tiniest advantage to one of our competitors because we see the results, you know, two days later on the racetrack. So everybody is hyper aware of this in our industry.

But is, you know, I don't know that that's the case everywhere. And it actually, I know it's not the case everywhere. Nobody's trying to give advantages to their competitors, but just, you know, mistakes happen and and things just kind of get out of control. And this really does seem to me like the sort of gold rush towards AI in every aspect of not just computing, but daily life is, you know, it's accelerating in a pace that like I've never seen before, honestly. Yeah, it is funny to have seen this play out over the past, you know, like, you know, we, we've really watched this play out since generative AI made those advancements like what, like 3-2, three years ago, maybe a little bit more now. 3:00-ish, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, since catchy BT kind of became a little more made everything more consumerized. But it's, it's just been interesting to see as a cybersecurity person, like how crazy and innovative the, the tech has been and how quickly it's been moving and just see in real time, like no one talk about cybersecurity or like people talk about it, but they're not talking about like how we actually secure, you know, the foundational and like LLMS and things like that.

And even just at this layer, like the how AI applications are used within the workplace, like, you know, it seems like this is something that is a bit of an afterthought. So, but this is just like classic cybersecurity though, which is that, you know, these technology innovates and then people kind of say, oops, we need to tack on cybersecurity afterwards, unfortunately. It's a repeating pattern in the the security and tech world for sure.

I mean, in my 25 years of being, you know, following cybersecurity, I think I could, this would probably be like maybe the 4th iteration of that. I think in the story that I wrote for today, I use the example of like when Wi-Fi was becoming, you know, popularized in the, you know, sort of early 2000s and a lot of IT departments rightly so we're like, we'll slow down. Let's figure out how in Wi-Fi was not even remotely secured at all.

Then like most Wi-Fi, commercial Wi-Fi access points had no encryption. Or if they did, the keys were leaked and everybody knew what they were and there were all kinds of problems with it. So if their organizations were not deploying Wi-Fi in their office, people would just go and buy Wi-Fi access points, plug them into the network and be like, we have Wi-Fi everybody. You know, it was like a very common thing. And that's one of the, you know, original sort of shadow IT examples in this current age.

That happened again with like the mobile revolution when everybody, you know, wanted to have e-mail access on their phones and all that kind of stuff. But it wasn't. IT was like, well, we don't really have a way to control all that. And they're like, well, too bad. We're going to figure it out and just go from there. So yeah, I humans are bad at learning lessons I think. I think so, yeah, that's definitely a big take away. I would say in my time working in cybersecurity that I've had. But the when, you know, when the panel was talking about AI, shadow AI versus like other kind of shadow IT examples that you talked about, like was there any sort of indication about how shadow AI is in turn like how it it's going to be different in terms of like, would it have a bigger impact of people using AI versus using like e-mail or, you know, SAS applications or things like that More like this is kind

of how shadow AI is, you know, similar as part of that bigger umbrella group. I think the general vibes seem to be that people think it's going to have a really large impact, but they're not. They can't even wrap their heads around what it's going to be. You know, we've seen some some little ripples here and there about it. You know, there's been some like data breach incidents and things like that with, with AI tools, but nobody seemed to have like a good answer of what the long term effects of that are going to be. I think it's, it's still too early to to know, you know, it's really early days still, even though it feels like it's been forever that AI has been the only topic of conversation in in the industry.

But yeah, I do think the long term impacts in even the medium term are going to be pretty large once we start seeing some organizations having to maybe report incidents because customer data was exposed inadvertently or things like that, or there was some tool with a bug in it or a malicious tool that was deployed without anybody's knowledge.

You know, it's hard to know at this point, but I, I imagine there's going to be plenty, plenty of long term, you know, negative effects. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really curious how data exposure incidents will play out because you know, a lot of how we see that now in non AI shadow IT types of applications is like through exposed like misconfigured S3 buckets or things like that when you're looking more at cloud applications or things like that. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm curious to see kind of how when it's more focused on AI tools, like what, how those incidents are going to look and, you know, the exposure, like how much data is going to be exposed, like, yeah. Ball a bit, yeah, yeah, it's just I just even reading through I don't even remember where I saw it today I saw somebody post something about how LinkedIn is planning to train its AI tools on profile data.

So you through profile data and somebody posted like, hey, you have until Monday to turn this off if you don't want that to happen, just like why is the default that you're going to train your stupid AI tool on my profile and like that? Seems very like Facebook behavior. Right. I yeah, I hate it. Scraping tape, yeah. It's just, I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah. I feel like every every week I'm just like old man yells at Cloud.

But we don't need that. That's not something that we need. I don't know, but there. And it's not just like the data exposure part of it. There's so many other parts of it too, too. Excuse me. The LinkedIn piece of it made me think of another one of the other folks at that CSO roundtable, I forget who it was, said. You know, one of the things that we're worried about is all of these AI companies, like all these AI tools are using us as their testers, you know, to train their models and train their tools to get them better and all that kind of stuff.

And we don't know what the results of that are. And it's just kind of this race to the bottom of everybody trying to do this at the same time. And every, every software company has like FOMO of like, well, shouldn't we be doing that? Well, they're doing it. We should be doing that, right? Well, why? Well, I don't know. Because they are. No, you know that it's a stupid thing that your parents would always like, Well, if your friend jumped off a bridge, would you jump off the bridge? Well, right. I know yeah, I mean, that seems to be the very essence of AIA little bit like it definitely.

I mean, this is very much my opinion, but it has its you know, it has its benefits for sure, but I think a lot of companies in using it have been saying, you know, we need to use AI because for the sake of using AI, so because. We don't want to fall behind and well, OK, but fall behind What Like fall behind people doing dumb shit like you don't, you don't have to keep up with that. Like there's, I don't know, I always feel like it's better to to take a deep breath and figure out what the use case is, figure out what you're trying to accomplish with whatever the technology is and then decide how to use it instead of just being like, oh, shiny new thing.

Let's see how they we how we can use that or more often misuse it. Yeah, Yeah, this is, I feel like ever since AI, like the AI evolution, we've been kind of having the same discussion. So yeah. Definitely there was another like it's not security related, but somebody this week released like a personal robot that you can have in your house. Did you see this? No, no, God, I can't. I think it's called Neo, like the thing for the Matrix. Yeah.

Look it up. You'll be horrified at what it looks like. I'm it's just it looks like a mannequin in the video that I saw was demonstrating this thing. I I think either loading or unloading a dishwasher and it you're seeing it, it. Looks horrified and I think it looks like a scarier, like robot for my robot. Yeah, yeah. And it looks like like a 50 year old person like me with our arthritis, like trying to move and like, huh, my choice don't really work like I that's what it looks like.

I saw somebody was like, why would you pay thousands of dollars to buy a thing that does something you can do slow more slowly and with worse results? Like what is the what are we trying to accomplish here? Also, what the hell are you going to do with that thing like? Does it? So does it it loads the dishwasher. What else does? It I have no idea that was like the one example video that I saw I'm sure it's just meant to be like a domestic companion so you can have it. I don't know like clean your house somehow or vacuum. I don't know I don't want any of it. I know that much if.

I'm going to a friend's house and they have one of those. Feel like I'm leaving. Yeah. Like those, you know, in like is it stop and shops that have those like robot things that go up to you and just kind of awkwardly like bump into you or fall? Yes. Just like a scarier version of that. Right. And it's supposedly looking for spills in the aisles or something, but they they make it worse by putting like the googly eyes on it and giving it like a personality or something. And I don't know about your kids, but like, I've fit in the grocery store and you've seen little kids, like run screaming from those things because they're like, they're so dystopian and horrific looking. It looks like a giant, you know, 6 1/2 foot tall traffic cone. It's just like beeping down the aisle and like, what is this thing doing?

I don't want this anywhere near me. It's so hectic. I like it. I yeah, it's just like impedes on when I'm trying to get my groceries. Yes. It's not helpful in any way. No, and I don't want to be at the grocery store to begin with. And I certainly don't want to fight like a an army of, you know, Butler robots to to get my groceries. Oh my gosh, I don't know. Everything's terrible on the robot front. I don't. I don't.

Like it, it, it reminds me of those like robot dogs that, you know, Boston Dynamics has been trying to perfect for like 20 years or whatever it is. And every six months they'll release a video of it, like walking down the stairs or, you know, doing a flip or something, or like, I don't. Those are terrifying. If you've ever. Watched I I think you said you haven't watched Black Mirror or like it's too dark for. You but like they. Have like an episode that is centered around those types of robots and it just hits way too close to home.

I no, I don't. I turned on the newest Superman movie that came out this summer. I was just going to watch it this past weekend. It was raining or whatever. I didn't have anything to watch so I I put that on within like 3 minutes. They carried Superman into his ice cave and there was an army of robots that were like helping him. I was like, I literally turned it off. I was like, no, I'm sorry, I'm going to watch some old 80s movie. I can't do. We're not doing this. Then you might. Yeah, well, I won't spoil it in case you watch. Oh no, you can spoil it.

I'm not not. Get destroyed, they kill the robots. Oh, OK, good. I like that part. I wished I maybe I could Fast forward to that. Yeah. I was so annoyed. I literally like said out loud. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like I can't even watch stupid Superman movie without like worker B robots repairing him, you know like. I feel like yeah, Superman and robots should not. No, they shouldn't be together. No, I mean, it's Superman.

He's Superman. Why does he need robots to fix? I don't know, whatever Hollywood get together. All right, back to security news. The other big I don't know how big this story is. I thought it was really interesting. So our old friends at Kaspersky put out a really long blog post, as they love to do on Monday. I believe it was about some malware that they found connected to a phishing campaign that was like really super targeted at, you know, the typical audience you would think, you know, activists, journalists, diplomats, that sort of target base.

And it uses like crazy complicated Chrome bug in exploit. And they did all this kind of forensic work and tied it all back together and figured out that the exploit and the malware that it delivered were connected to Hacking Team, which is now called Memento, I believe. Is that the name? A mental labs, yeah. Sick with, of course a three for an E and a zero.

I don't know what are let's not do that. I don't know, but I'm not actually sure if that's how it's spelled. That's how they styled it, but I don't think it is. I think they just styled it that way in the headline, which I kind of like. But if for people that don't know, Hacking Team was one of the, I don't know how big they were. It's impossible to tell how big these companies are, You know, like NSO or any of them. It's impossible to know. But it's definitely one of the older like commercial spyware vendors out there. They've been around for at least 20 years. Really long time Italian company 2. 1000. Three Oh yeah.

OK yeah. So, you know, selling commercial spyware to the alleged customers that you would think law enforcement, intelligence services, government agencies, etcetera. And they were one of the more notorious. They were actually like relatively public about their stuff. You know, if you think back like 8 or 10 years ago, they were one of the companies that you could sort of point to and like their executives would talk sometimes on the record.

It was a little weird. And then they got hacked and a bunch of their tools got leaked online and they kind of disappeared. And there were some corporate things that happened and they got bought and reconstituted the way that those things happened. But it seems like this is the first time I can remember hearing their name in quite a few years since that hack, like, which I think was like 2019 or 2020 something. It was quite a while ago, but the KL researchers found this new version of their spy Ware that they're calling Dante that had this like insanely complex bug that it was using to deliver the malware.

I just thought it was a really interesting story both for the Hacking Team part and for like the complexity of what they had to go through to. Oh, I didn't even say that this is a sandbox escape bug in Chrome, which, you know, very valuable and very difficult to construct. I think at this point in Chrome's history, yeah, Google patched it back in March, even though it the Kaspersky post just came out this week. But it was kind of one of those examples of like insanely complex research on like really, really obviously high level work on the offensive side too that the Hacking Team or Memento group is doing and how how difficult this is on both sides of the fence, I think.

Right, yeah, it was that was a really good read and like, yeah, for anyone listening, I definitely recommend reading the Kaspersky report because it's it's really cool. But the what's interesting too is that when they were acquired by Memento Labs or in the cyber group or in the cyber group initially and then renamed the Memento Labs and just like the whole thing, they they basically came out and said like we're starting from scratch. We're gonna completely change everything that we've been doing.

And then just when read, you know, things kind of work were quiet for a few years and then showcase their new, you know, this Dante surveillance tool. And so this is kind of the first look at, you know, at that in terms of its capabilities and things like that. But you know, what's what was interesting too is that, you know, we we see a lot of different reports about spyware and things like that.

And the commercial spyware market is, is, is really, always been really interesting to me and unique. But basically Kaspersky researchers were saying that like 1 issue that they're that they have with them kind of detecting commercial spyware is that you don't, you can't usually find that copyright information or like the product names or things like that in the exploits or in the malware.

But then they said in the case of the Dante spyware attribution, attribution was simple once we got rid of the obfuscation and found the malware name and the code. So I thought that was a funny little tidbit there. Yeah, it's always handy when people put the name of their malware in the malware itself, or in the old days where people would literally like put out like, hi, you know, like put out greets in their malware to like specific researchers. Oh yeah, I love when that happens.

Yeah, I remember that happening like when I was at Kaspersky a few times to like cost in and guys like that where where malware writers put like their actual like hellos to them in the malware just like would be cool but also disconcerting I would think. Definitely disconcerting, yeah. If you're a researcher, though, and that happens to you, there's a little bit I'm sure of, like I've made it. You know, yeah, yeah. They care about me. They really care. Yeah, I'll put the link to that in the show notes. It's it's a really interesting read, especially for folks that are interested in that commercial spyware world and also in like how difficult it is to construct a sandbox escape these days.

Just, you know, based on all of the defenses and mitigations that Google has put into Chrome over the years. The way that I actually came upon this post was I saw this morning Justin Shu, who was a former Google security engineer for a really long time, left a few years ago. I don't, I don't actually even know what he's doing now, but he posted a long thread on blue Sky that said that he actually wrote the vulnerable code that this bug used.

And he, he kind of explained like he knew at the time it's I'll post the link to this as well. But there was like a decision process of whether to do something one way or the other. And the reasoning for why he did it the way that he did at the time. And that this was the one part of the code that this, this malware was able to exploit. And he, he posted a pretty long thread like sort of explaining this whole thing. And I was like, damn, that's kind of crazy that this guy that Justin was able to identify, like, Oh, yeah, that's code that I wrote X number of years ago that there that they were exploiting. Like that's crazy.

I mean, imagining, yeah. Like looking at a story that you wrote like 15 years ago and being like, oh, that's my typo. I knew it. Yeah, no. I don't think I could. No. Well, the joy that we can go back and fix those. You can't, you know, no, nothing terrible is going to happen from a, you know, one of our typos. But yeah, that I think that is, I've heard other engineers and developers talk about that in the past, about like looking at code that they wrote, you know, in college or something, and be like, Oh my God, Can you believe I did that? You know, like reading some short story that you wrote in like, freshman English.

It's like, Oh no, get that off the Internet. Can't. No, no, it's so embarrassing, like it's worse than looking at old pictures for me honestly. It is, yeah. So much worse. I I don't really know why. Yeah, I, I don't know either. It's it's just funny, like being like, huh. I was so naive and like. Oh, yeah. Or like, what made me think that, like, really extended metaphor was a great idea there? Like, where it, where was my editor? Like, come on.

Yeah, that's the very. First newspaper like clippings. If you've ever, like kept those, it's just, yeah. It's like, wow. I have some. I have like a binder that has like, physical copies of, yeah, like old clippings of mine. Some for good reasons, some for bad reasons. But you just look at it and you're like, you thought you were, you know, like Bob Woodward. Ridiculous writing about some City Council meeting that nobody gives 2 shits about.

I know it's so that is so accurate. A Wednesday night City Council meeting at like 8:00 PM. There's like 4 people at What am I doing? The hard hitting issues. Oh, you know it, You know it. All right, hard hitting. Speaking of, it's time for animal updates. America's favorite segment. So last week, I think we scared a lot of people with the the number of animals that were wandering through both of our houses. What what's the situation with the pack rats? Have have you discovered the the nest or where? Where are we at?

We are it's AI have a very good update, which is that we haven't seen any pack rats since I talked to you last week about this on this and I'd I think that's a good thing. I don't know if just like 2 of them got in or like you know, two or three or whatever and then do they just left. But like I also think it could be a bad thing because they could just be in the attic and we're just not seeing them. So I go back and forth on it. I haven't heard any like wrestling and like. I don't know.

Yeah. As soon as you said we haven't seen them, my mind immediately went to. That's not a good thing, I know, but then. Keeping me sane in this situation. Uh huh. That's just the way that my brain works. Because as I said last week with like the, the bat incident that we had, like all the research that I did at the time was like, it's not gone. I promise you, it's not gone. It's just hiding. How do you, you don't know that you got my house.

But I, you know, the rats are a little less nefarious than a bat. But. I need to like, yeah, I need to tell myself like that in order to be able to stay in the house and sleep. I did put like steel wool in all like the crevices I could find cause. Apparently steel. Wool like keeps mice out. I don't know about pack rats, but. Oh, interesting. Okay. And by the way, my husband, he still thinks it's a squirrel, but like he's eventually like, I got him to eventually admit he was like, okay, maybe they were chipmunks. It's just like, no, they're literally, I know what a mouse and a rat look like.

I've done a lot of research on this. Like they weren't cute. Like a chipmunk would be super cute. Yeah, chipmunks are cute, and they're brown with white stripes and black and white stripes. Yeah. And like, their tails are slightly bushy I guess, but they're not Gray and. They they don't like. Anything like squirrels, really. They're about 1/3 of the size of a squirrel. I know. Well anyways, after the podcast last week, I had my phone out like at all times to be like if I saw one to take a picture, I could like send it.

But yeah, I haven't we haven't seen them. So knock on wood. Hopefully it states that. Way OK, that's good. I kept waiting like after the podcast last week and I told my wife this whole story and like her face, she was just, she could not believe it. And like for a couple days she was like, well, where's the pictures? I was like, well, I guess she hasn't seen one. Yeah. I don't know. Is that good? Is that bad? Yeah. I'll send you a picture though of our our chimney where we saw them come from 'cause it's just like there's traps all around it. Like that it's like.

Yeah. So I don't know if any more like happened to come out of that area. They're they're done for it unless they jump over them. You don't know. Oh my God, that's so funny. Well, I'm glad they haven't reappeared. And you know, although, you know, if they come back tomorrow on Halloween, you could play it off for the kids and be like, oh, look what Dad and I did for you for Halloween. Like special little special little thing. No, I don't want any scary Halloween surprises.

I'm done. No, I don't blame you. No. Yikes. Well, I don't have any dog updates sadly. It's been like the weather's been crappy this week so no outdoor walks. I didn't get to see any dogs, but I did find out that one of my neighbors recently bought a bunch of chicks like baby chickens. So like in the past week or so. And we're going into late fall.

These are so the baby chicks are living in their house, which, Yeah. Like just wandering around or? Like I, I believe, I haven't seen them, but I believe that they have their own little pen or whatever. I don't know. But from what I do know about chicks, they grow into chickens, which are rather large birds and, you know, make a lot of noise. Also a lot of crap, I think. I don't think you generally want them in your house. No, not house pets.

Yeah. Is the intent to like gather eggs or? I believe so, yes. With the price of eggs in this economy, Lindsay, who knows what you got? To do. But they do own a dog, like a pretty large dog. So that's always that like is a house dog. So I don't, I'm not really sure how this is going to work. I have a feeling we're going to like hear a bad story in the in a week or so, you know you're going. To hear a lot of like chicken squawks and then just silence.

Yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah. I don't think this is there's a good ending for this story, unfortunately. That's. That's really funny. I know, yeah. I don't know how quickly baby chicks grow into chickens. I have no concept of that. But I don't know if, but like, by the spring, we'll just see them out in the yard. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like a lot of they're actually, I mean, to your point about eggs, like there was a whole movement like since the egg prices went up of like people like I at least because you can see like on I don't know if you're in like your town, your local town Facebook group. Oh God, no.

But my life is. It's terrible. It's a really fun place to be like if you like, but the there's like, there'll just be like intermittent posts I've noticed crop up over the past few years of people being like, I want to like get my own chickens and like, like, I think because of the price of eggs, like more people are looking at it so. It's, it's a very aggressive thing to do, I think. Like, I don't know how many, how many eggs do you have to eat on a regular basis to make that worth the money? Like we just don't eat that many eggs. I don't, I don't know, like.

We well, we eat a lot of eggs actually, like my family does, but I don't I on the like. Conversely, I don't know how many like eggs these chickens are popping out like, I don't know. Like I don't either. I know I have little knowledge about, you know, chicken eggs. I'm. Just. I buy at the grocery store, right? I'm picturing like the Napoleon Dynamite, like chicken house with where they're just like, going, like grabbing eggs for the chickens and then like eating the raw eggs for lunch in the middle of it. That's the way I'm picturing it.

I don't know. Yeah. So disgusting. But yeah. So that's the that's the Barnyard update for this week. Not terrible, honestly. No, I hopefully it works for the best. I don't know. I have a feeling that in like a month I'm going to have a bad update for you. I don't know. I think I could have a bad update for you too. You are too. Yeah, well, we'll try not to. We'll try not to horrify people with this. We'll try to keep like the happy animal stories.

But yeah, All right. Well, great to see you and enjoy Halloween, enjoy trick or treating with the kiddos and watch out for those little mice or whatever the hell they are. Yeah, chipmunks. Squirrel rats. Kangaroo rats. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Have a great week, then. See ya. You too. Bye.